Friday, September 17, 2010

Microsoft Annual Review 2010

Just a quick post: some of you enjoy posting information relevant to your review, both looking at numbers and a critical view of the message given to you. It has started to happen a bit in the last post (I'm going through the comments now) so I'm just going to capitulate (again) and put this small post up for the 2010 Annual Review share and compare. Yes, this is a bit late.

Oh, and obviously grab yourself a few grains of salt. Folks seem to like this format:

  • L# (promo'd?)
  • (Exceeded|Achieved|Underperformed) / (20|70|10)
  • Bonus $K
  • Stock $K
  • Merit % (/Promo %)
  • Optional comments about Division / Group, discipline, impression of review

Administrivia: yeah, that was another long pause moderating and posting and all that. I was on an extended vacation that continued as an extended vacation of the mind. My apologies. I've got at least one short post in mind before our Company Meeting 2010.

383 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 383 of 383
Anonymous said...

Level: 59
Rating: A/70
Bonus: 7%
Stock: 100%
Merit %: 1.5%

Months in level: 26

Got some critical feedback at MY that prevented me from getting 10%. Not sure what I should expect.

Anonymous said...

Wow! Started fairly recently at MSFT. By all means try other pastures. You don't know how lucky you are. Seriously. Across three companies over the last seven years the ONLY raises I got were when moving jobs. Only bonuses when I threatened to leave. This is from companies as varied as startups to companies with more employees than MSFT.

Not disagreeing that compensation should be more even and clear but I don't think most of the complainers ahve a clue how bad the rest of the working world is

Anonymous said...

Laid off on 7/7/10 and got the 60 day find another job package.

Rating: E/70
Bonus: 6%
Stock: N/A
Merit: N/A

I was exceeded last fiscal also and got a 12% bonus. Microsoft lived up to my low expectation on my bonus since I was out the door.

Hearing lots of rumors of more layoffs next week or the week after.

Anonymous said...

Promo: 60
Rating: E/20
Bonus: 19%
Stock: 225%
Merit/Promo: 4%/7%

Not bad for the first year

Anonymous said...

Fwiw, I left msft a few months ago but told my boss about it long before I left. It paid off and I got a great bonus (better than last year) precisely because I was up front and helped with the transition.

For me this wasn't much of a risk because I knew my manager pretty well and we had a good (not perfect) working relationship.

The lesson is don't be a lemming, understand your manager, what motivates them and how they treat people in your team. Then act accordingly. Be sneaky if they're a dick, be up-front if they're a good person.

Anonymous said...

> No promo : It sucks. I was expecting a promo this time for sure and my managers did not have the guts or were playing safe to keep me in the group.

You're an idiot. There is no "expecting" unless you have it in email and you've been told who is ahead of you in the queue (there's a budget). If you can't get it in email after a *reasonable* length-in-level then leave.

Anonymous said...

Level: 63 (UX)
Rating: E/70
Bonus: 16%
Stock: 130%
Merit: 4%

Given the stock award percentage, that I was on the verge of an E/20.

Anonymous said...

Are you people really that oblivious to think that Seattle has a high cost of living? Try moving to San Francisco, one of the nicer neighborhoods in and around Washington DC, or New York. You will find that $70K doesn't get you as far as it does here

What's your point here? That you are better off here than the two other most expensive places on the planet? I think you made his point..

Everyone needs to take their beer goggles off. Microsoft is just not what it once was.

It used to be you worked your little buns off- but woke up one day and found out you were rich and never had to work again.

Now you just get to work your buns off so you can just make ends meet. For what? So a bunch of executives can make 360X times what you do while complaining about having to pay some incomes taxes?

Anonymous said...

-I don't think most of the complainers ahve a clue how bad the rest of the working world is-

I get 3-5 calls a day. Lots of serious offers. MS needs me more than I need MS. Personally I don't worry about what upper management around here thinks. They don't do it very often.

Anonymous said...

What's worse is that when people do look around the company, they are starting to see ageism coming into play

I remember how management treated orange badges 2000. All they asked for was equal treatment for doing an equal job. Microsoft promptly fired all of them, oldest first. I've never forgotten that.

No different than a professional athlete- it seems the effective career of an IT Professional is getting shorter all the time.

Anonymous said...

Lots of victims in the room tonight. Lots of victims. It wasn't MY performance- it was my MANAGER! It was the one-armed man!

Anonymous said...

Who gets the promotions, your politicians.

-

They seem to know all the inside tricks of the ladder game. In my team these principle PM's seem to get the biggest bucks for making the worst decisions. If it were me I wouldn't let them design a coloring book.

Think: If they would just listen to the people on the floor, they could at least get the big bucks without looking like such an a-- clown doing it.

Anonymous said...

Level: 63 (Field Sales)
Rating: E/70
Bonus: 32%
Stock: 130%
Merit: 4%

I had a great year, was disappointed in not reaching 20% contribution. Have been in level 21 months; pushing for level increase and clear guidance to 20% land this FY.

Anonymous said...

- On the other hand, two mediocre SDET2 in the same team got promoted to senior.

I guess it is not just my team then. The SDET that do the best job are always the ones that end up at the bottom of the barrel. They don't have any visibility, because they spend all their time working instead of screwing around in meetings.

Anonymous said...

We have a new person on our team and the guy has a lot of questions. I have a decision to make now. If I help him out and he does very well, it really only hurts my chances on the forced curve.

You can think whatever you want about the review system, but a curve is a curve. Their are only so many A's, B's, C's, and F's being handed out class.

Would you help the kid sitting next to you at your college exam?

...

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know of companies that pay better than Microsoft in Seattle area? I see vendors charging as high as $200/ hr and as low as $100/hr for v-roles without any accountabilities. Can anyone run the math and prove it is good to be an FTE? Am sure with the pay vendors make, they can cover up ProClub, Premera and other benefits an FTE gets and still pocket some great money.

Anonymous said...

Mini's back!
L63
Promo at mid-year after 2.5 years
Rating: E/20
Bonus: 14%
Stock: 250%
Raise:4%
Was really busy this year for launch compared to previous years. Was actually thinking of quitting a few times due to pressure. But am past the hump and am looking forward to next year. Bonus was a little low.

Anonymous said...

re: "Of course you can sign up for COBRA, that's the law. MSFT just wouldn't help with the costs (which, for my family, are $1700/mo for the Premera option - Group Health would have been less)." ... I thought that Obama had a discount rate that was supposed to last for 6 months ... $600/mo. instead of $1800/mo.

Anonymous said...

Bill G Sr who lives on SS, annuities, and tax free munis and probably has a very, very low tax rate no matter what his income is.

Thanks for helping to kill the dream you S.O.B. Some of us are still on the way up and scraping for everything we have.

I can guarantee you if this was MSFT in 1984 he wouldn't even think of bringing up this stupid income tax idea. Wait- he didn't bring it up then.


This is the devil that 5he Gates' family has to placate because of their foundation, which will be taxed if they don't help with the income tax. Bill the III gsve $$ to his dad's initiative, that's where he stands...feed Seymore before Seymore eats him.

Anonymous said...

Enron: Adopts the vitality curve. Results well-publicized.

Microsoft: Adopts the vitality curve. Then slips to become the #2 most valuable tech stock in the world behind you-know-who.

Conclusion: That's not a coincidence.

Our goals as a company are no longer about making the best product we can make. Our goals as a company are crudely, individually centered: to avoid being 10%-ers.

Will Lisa B. listen? No. That's why we're screwed. It's all crowd control, folks. That's the way of the business. Crowd control. Product excellence was dead as a motive a long time ago. You know it, I know it.

God, help me find the thing you put me on Earth to do. 'Cause Microsoft has no idea what in the hell to do with it. Which is why I got a 10.

Anonymous said...

I have left MS India couple of months back.

Guess it was always on the cards, given principal people are leaving MS India [not a good sign].

Some Points I would like to make:-

1. This was the company which taught me to stay open & respectful. And this old relic of the company recently taught me how to back stab on people, who trust you. Way to go. Moreover, these set of politicians are now being promoted into Sr. Band.
Mini,whats your take on that?

2. I used to see Sr. level MS people some 7 years back - praising Apache for what they did in WebServices and telling that IIS does not match up and then being praised for being open. That culture is gone. So called Sr. level people here in MS does not even know what people are doing in industry, and praising any other company for the right reason, and telling Microsoft is not good at something is a blasphemy now.
What is this sign Mini?

3. In India - 50% or more people are just not the folks any honest/ethical person would love to work with. I don't know making Amit Chatterjee the MD would bring any change there or not.

4. On the rewards perspective - my greatest reward was working with intelligent people in MS. I was not for the pay, my dad is way rich by Indian standards.
Last 2 years [of my 8 year career in MS India] took a particularly bad shape - and all the people I revered, left MS to work elsewhere. I lost the incentive to work there.


Hence, in future I would see to that I never cross path with Microsoft India again.

However, I thank Microsoft India for letting me have a foothold in the Industry and wish it luck in its future endeavors, which in these times, it so desperately needs.

Rating: U/?
Bonus: 0%
Stock: N/A
Merit: N/A

%Hike in the new Company 40% Base.
30% on whole CTC.

Anonymous said...

"The severance was treated as a big lump sum payment & taxed at a higher than normal rate. Effectively, the "bonus" meant for COBRA assistance all went away to taxes. "
It's automatic but unless you continue to get large lump sum payments it's a wash at tax time.

Anonymous said...

"There are many on this forum who have been hurt unfairly, their life's, their careers have been damaged….destroyed....adversely impacted due to unfair treatment and leveling of false charges. Can something be done about this in a united manner so that misdeeds of these bad people are exposed?"

Amen. The question is what to do. A postcard campaign demanding change to the review system? Or demanding that LisaB be fired? Is there a sympathetic journalist out there? It's hard to imagine that a "can something be done in a united manner" discussion hasn't already occurred here before, but I haven't seen it and can't help but wonder. Anyone have any ideas?

Anonymous said...

@Tuesday, September 21, 2010 3:27:00 PM

Which group? Your manager must be really gr8. would like to join ur group.

Anonymous said...

Level 62 (SDE II)
U/10
Bonus: 0
Stock: 0
Raise: 0

My first U (also had 1 3.0 back in the old days, but was mostly 3.5 and 4.0)
Also my first 10%.

I was suprised about the U and very suprised about the 10%.

Essentially I was told the problem is I am still performing at level 62 after 4 years in 62. I should be performing at level 63 now and that is what I am being rated against (new manager this year).

I accepted that and really have been braking things down better, commucating better, estimating time better. And it doesn't seem to be impressing my manager at all. I think the writing on the wall is obvious, strange after so many years (14.5). I hope this is just burnout - I would hate to think I have peaked in my skill set.
I don't blame my manager, he seems intelligent and honest, but preconcieved bias can be strong. He also has been helpful in giving me information about what needs to change.

Perhaps with the layoff rumors this will be sooner rather than later - I will cross my fingers that they are still giving out severence.

On some level I am sort of happy, MS has been good to me and I have the money to live for a while without worry and get my non MS life caught up when/if this happens. I worry for all the others and their familys who don't have the resources set aside.

If it happens, I'll let you all know about severence etc...

Anonymous said...

Just filled in an annual review survey. That seems like a good place to collect your feedback on the review and get it hopefully to the right people...

Anonymous said...

"I am a PDRM in MCS and this entire story sounds fishy. Your review is not based on utilization alone."

Obviously as a PDRM, you missed the training in QRP that plainly said 100% is required to make Achieved. You can not get an Achieved without 100%. It was even hardcoded into the commitments for this fiscal year.

Anonymous said...

Forgive me for my ignorance since I'm fairly new to Msft but what happens when you get a U/10? Are you pretty much managed out of the company or can you still have a career at Microsoft?

Anonymous said...

Speaking of level bands,

remember this chart:

Salary Bands

Anyone know the current salary ranges for each level?

Anonymous said...

"Not disagreing that compensation should be more even and clear but I don't think most of the complainers ahve a clue how bad the rest of the working world is."

Exactly - and it is going to be ALOT more challenging to receive a good bonus and promo. That is the way it SHOULD be. Why do MSoftees these days think that bonus and promos are a right, rather than a reward???

Anonymous said...

There is an anonymous complaint line; however MS is only going to investigate if someting is ILLEGAL, not because your manager is playing favourites, or because of a lousy review. They only set up these complaint lines to save their own hide, that someone may clue them in to illegal activites, under the umbrella before the State or the Feds come in to investigate. The complaint line is not to help victims, just MS.
https://www.microsoftintegrity.com/
Case in point, a complaint filed earlier this year, by an outside person about a certain Sr. Manager in STB, several months later did result in him being fired after 15+ years with Microsoft, and a recent promotion. He was fired due to "possible" ILLEGAL activities, as I understand the outcome, not because he was also using the review system as a weapon - No, HR let the reviews locked by him in July stay in force despite his being fired in August, for illegal activites taking place throughout FY09 & FY10. The folks assigned E/20's regularly fraternized with him including taking clients to strip bars, I understand. <-sound familiar? Those that were victims and part of the witnesses against him to HR got screwed by his review scores. And HR is doing nothing to rectify the situation, even after they fired this guy. It's like "problem solved, we fired him, we don't have to do anything else - I'ts not our job or in my commitments". They just have no care in the world for the mess left behind, or how it affected others under this person. Your career be damned.

I'm certain that if an internal employee had made the same complaint to HR, this guy would have still been employed. How about a award to the complainer? MS saved hundreds of thousands based on that complain alone.

Anonymous said...

Wondering if its even possible to overcome the bad review or if its time to move on... been 3 years @ 59, but first 10...

If you have been at 59 for three years, either your job has no promo path (a manual UI tester, perhaps) or you just suck at it.

Either way, you need to change jobs.

Anonymous said...

>Not bad for the first year

Hahaha, just wait. 59->60 is like falling off a log, and first few years promotions tend to be fast as you are competing with other newbs.

Anonymous said...

Bill G Sr who lives on SS, annuities, and tax free munis and probably has a very, very low tax rate no matter what his income is.

Thanks for helping to kill the dream you S.O.B. Some of us are still on the way up and scraping for everything we have.


Well Mr. or Ms. "Scraping for the Dream" just keep in mind the proposal is for an income tax for people earning north of $350k a year. I am just guessing that most of the L61 people posting their review results can't exactly relate to your dream.

But all the best to the SteveB PR team for posting here! You Go! You did neglect to mention that BillG is in favor as well ...

Anonymous said...

MS-Poll:

Stay away! Say nothing. The way I hear it the company that collates MS-Poll results is colluding with HR to break confidentiality, and has been doing so since 2007. Hence if you participate you are setting yourself up to be fired.

Anonymous said...

To the person who said

As a former Microsoft employee (I left for a competitor, am making a ton more money and stock price is through the roof), I want to gloat about this but I can't.

What I'm struck with is the entitlement that is so infused within the majority of these comments. The focus on the money - all of you are making a fairly substantial salary in the midst of what appears to be a depression here in the US.

I think to my current team, how review time for us is an afterthought. We are so excited about the work, about the products, even our CEO. We trust our leadership. The freedom from this kind of pressure is what I want for all of you.


Me too.

Read this book "Who moved my cheese". It took me a while, but I did it. Much happier now.

Anonymous said...

Quit microsoft after being unable to take it anymore and also curious to see how the outside world looks like...opened my mail box and saw a check for 4000$ (incl taxes) and was pleasantly surprised...

For the people still in ms, make your choice wisely...Bureacracy, incompetent managers, ass kissing and performance calibration exist everywhere. Make sure you remember this before going out.

Anonymous said...

Level: 63(promo)
Rating: E/70
Bonus: ~12%
Stock: 130%
Merit: 2.1%

I have no idea why the merit was only 2.1%. I guess it all depends upon teams and how they calibrate.

Anonymous said...

Hello "insert name here"

May we count on you for your participation in a mass booing at next week's Company Meeting?

Faithfully yours,
Reality

Anonymous said...

I have never seen so many whiny bi***es in one place. What's stopping you from quitting if you think Microsoft stinks? Lemme guess, you must know you have it good but love to whine it up.

Everyday you swipe your badge, you are making a choice. Microsoft isn't perfect by any means - neither are you. If you can't stand the place, please LEAVE!!

Anonymous said...

"[...] it was my MANAGER! It was the one-armed man!"

One-armed managers wouldn't be a worry. It's those with half a brain who are such a problem.

Anonymous said...

The vocal minority.....

Do you all really think you deserve to be E/20? Seriously? You know what the 20 in E/20 means, right? Think about that for a second.

Only 200+ comments for a 90k person company? I didn't make E/20 last year but I looked around me and focused on my deficiencies and did it this year.

Take training, be a better communicator in and outside of the office, develop a style. Get a Mentor. Fill the gaps in your org. It takes thought. If you're too lazy to do that you only have yourself to blame in the end. You can only blame your manager to an extent. Find out why you have a bad relationship with your manager. Remove your ego from the equation. Fix that.

For the people who got U/10, I don't know what to say. I'm sure every situation is different. Maybe they really are out to get you and that's unfortunate. For the slackers have no sympathy.

Also please don't be a slacker when you have several dependents then blame Microsoft (or whatever company) for "destroying your family's lives" when you get a bad review. Keep it in your pants until you are financially capable.

One more thing. HR is not your friend. Didn't you guys read "Corporate Confidential"?

Anonymous said...

"Forgive me for my ignorance since I'm fairly new to Msft but what happens when you get a U/10? Are you pretty much managed out of the company or can you still have a career at Microsoft?"

In most cases you're done. I've heard rumors about people with U/10 magically finding teams to hire them, but everyone I know personally who's had a U/10 has never been able to move and has been out of the company fairly fast.

If you get a U/10 assume you're stuck with your current team unless you have a very influential friend who's a senior manager and willing to buck the unspoken policy that nobody hires U/10s. If you stay with your current team and manage to turn it around, assume that no other teams will talk to you until you've been promoted in your current team, which signals to them that you are no longer untouchable.

Unknown said...

I have an open door policy for all who think they have been treated unfairly.
FSB

Anonymous said...

anyone know the salary ranges for the 60-62 band? Does HR still have to provide that if asked? Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Stay away! Say nothing. The way I hear it the company that collates MS-Poll results is colluding with HR to break confidentiality, and has been doing so since 2007. Hence if you participate you are setting yourself up to be fired.

No collusion is necessary to figure out who the complainers are in MS-POLL. Remember, "You damn well better fill out your MS-POLL and you damn well better fill it out positively. Or else."

I don't know why the company spends time and money on it other than it helps one or more managers meet their review goal and/or there is a financial connection between the Microsoft manager who authorizes the poll and the company that profits from it.

Anonymous said...

I see vendors charging as high as $200/ hr and as low as $100/hr for v-roles without any accountabilities

The vendor companies make a lot of money - not the vendor employees.

Anonymous said...

I am not sure where this is coming from, but this is both illegal and not true. COBRA and severance have nothing to do with being reemployed. I have had friends that took packages from Msft last year, and are working full time on campus again. Please check your facts:


Of course you can sign up for COBRA, that's the law. MSFT just wouldn't help with the costs (which, for my family, are $1700/mo for the Premera option - Group Health would have been less).

But yes. They were very clear on that point: if you take the severance (which included a bit extra to help pay for COBRA), you can't ever come back again, etc. Or, if you do NOT take the severance, you can come back.

Anonymous said...

re: "Of course you can sign up for COBRA, that's the law. MSFT just wouldn't help with the costs (which, for my family, are $1700/mo for the Premera option - Group Health would have been less)."

... I thought that Obama had a discount rate that was supposed to last for 6 months ... $600/mo. instead of $1800/mo.


That deal is long over. You had to be "involuntarily terminated" between September 1, 2008 and May 31, 2010. Anyone losing their job after those dates does not qualify for the subsidy.

Anonymous said...

"MS-Poll:
Stay away! Say nothing. The way I hear it the company that collates MS-Poll results is colluding with HR to break confidentiality, and has been doing so since 2007. Hence if you participate you are setting yourself up to be fired."

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2010-09-01/

Anonymous said...

Company Market Capitalization
This table says it all ... AAPL now $54bill bigger market cap than MSFT.
Exxon Mobil $313.3 billion
Apple $267.1 billion
PetroChina $265.5 billion
Microsoft $211.7 billion
Industrial & Commercial $211.5 billion
Bank of China

Anonymous said...

Good lord people... Get the frakk out of there.

Do you have any idea how insane all this stuff sounds from the outside?

I'll assume the majority of posters are decent employees, who want to do a good job and what is best for MS. But clearly the org there is set up to ensure that you'll fail. That's what it looks like from the outside anyway.

Any company that large is going to be dysfunctional to some extent. But geez... Oracle and IBM are playgrounds compared to the mindgames illustrated on this blog.

Seriously, go find a buddy who's been out for a year or so and ask him about his new perspective.

Anonymous said...

just keep in mind the proposal is for an income tax for people earning north of $350k a year.

But you forget that the state can just vote to reduce the salary range by just a 50% margin. So in a few years, it will be reduced to those making over $200k, then over $100k and everyone else gets screwed and those who can start moving to income-tax less states like Nevada.

Anonymous said...

Just found out that the commitment rating is also ranked, despite the protests from HR that your manager and you completely control this rating.

Anonymous said...

Questions for LisaB?

Lisa is visiting my subsidary shortly, and I'm trying to collate some questions to ask her.
Yes I know this is naive and they are likely to be filtered out, but need to try anyway.

These questions need to be reasonable and succinct and within her remit

Any suggestions ?

- Confirm and prove that Kim's / solid performers / pro's in place are valued at Microsoft

- Get rid of this crap about career velocity

- Does she realise how damaging the Limited II / 10% type 2 category is ?

-Does she realise a 10% rating totally wipes out the possibilty of being taken on by another team ?

- The review process is ... (what can you say)

- The review model is broken
it emphasizes visibilty and personal accomplishment over teamwork,
and stretch goals and commitments (however vague and irrelivant) over core work
Thats before we factor in favoritism

- Whats with the perceived age discrimination

- Redundancies (not sure what to ask)

- Why don't execs seem to be held properly accountable when they mess up ?

- How to make Microsoft exciting again (Win 7, Phone 7, kinnect etc are helping but still ...

- The current 'like it or lump it' approach will have negative repercussions in the future, when it will be important to retain and attract talent


The poster on Sept 21 7:13:00 AM
also nailed it and had lots of valid points


MSEurope1

Anonymous said...

They were very clear on that point: if you take the severance (which included a bit extra to help pay for COBRA), you can't ever come back again, etc. Or, if you do NOT take the severance, you can come back.

I am not sure where this is coming from, but this is both illegal and not true. COBRA and severance have nothing to do with being reemployed. I have had friends that took packages from Msft last year, and are working full time on campus again. Please check your facts:


We had a lawyer look at it.

You're right about this much: COBRA has nothing to do with it, except that you either got the COBRA-assistance-and-severance option, or the neither-of-them option. COBRA had nothing to do with getting rehired - taking the severance option (which included COBRA assistance) did.

I assure you, my husband was absolutely told, verbally AND in writing (confirmed by the lawyer), that if he took the severance package he would be barred from future employment at MSFT. Period.

Now, perhaps it it's illegal, perhaps it's legal but unenforceable, and perhaps - just perhaps, it was merely a vicious headgame, intended to intimidate a shocked and frightened man into the behavior they wanted from him. Regardless, I do assure you, we have the paperwork here in our possession that says exactly that. I don't know exactly the circumstances under which MSFT trots out this particular severance clause, but as this termination was for "underperformance" (probably influenced and/or biased to some degree by his age, being at MSFT too long, and not being able to work 80 hrs/week anymore etc) rather than for some egregious breach of rules....

Look. You can come to your own conclusion. Sooner or later, others will pop up here and confirm similar verbiage in their terminations. Last year was last year. This is a different environment.

Anonymous said...

Level/Rating/Bonus/Stock/Merit: Average

Satisfaction with the company and its management: lowest ever. Conclusion: 2 weeks notice. Finally, leaving the company makes perfect sense. Joining the ranks of those who decided to stop whining and start doing something else outside of MS.

Parting comments: I learned a lot, and for that I am grateful. Now it is time to move on.

Anonymous said...

Can those of you who have had your "involuntary" last mtg w/ HR please step forward? It would be really valuable to hear what choices were offered to you. All the U/10s on here will face this very soon, A/10s not that much later. How we choose what to do at this meeting is very important. Can folks please verify whether we might really get offered severance vs. ever working at MS again (FTE, a-, or v-)? And, if you take severance, does that mean no unemployment insurance?
Thanks, best wishes all.

Anonymous said...

The vendor companies make a lot of money - not the vendor employees.

It seems like all these corporations are making piles of money, while the average employee gets the shaft.

Anonymous said...

If you have been at 59 for three years, either your job has no promo path (a manual UI tester, perhaps) or you just suck at it.

L59 is the new L56

Maybe you didn't get the memo.

Anonymous said...

"ase in point, a complaint filed earlier this year, by an outside person about a certain Sr. Manager in STB, several months later did result in him being fired after 15+ years with Microsoft"

Doesn't suprise me one bit that was STB. The stories I could tell!

Anonymous said...

To:

We have a new person on our team and the guy has a lot of questions....
Would you help the kid....

This is so damn tough these days.

First of all, if he's out of your stack rank level band groups (61-62, 63-64) then you are good and can be a kind human without concern.

If not you have to figure that newby has a couple of things going: 1. your manager hired them and 2. a 1 review cycle pass.

If your manager seems like they'll stick around for a while, you might as well 'mentor' newby. More skills for you to demonstrate and manager will figure it out & appreciate you making their work and performance good. No manager worth their salt would U/10 one of their own hires in the first few years & they'll be pissed if newby flounders while you don't help.

If you're manager is going to bail, or newby happens to have a similar role in an extended team & you don't share managers AND their the same level band - it's a damned situation. It's your paycheck/family against theirs - and you need to let your situation guide you.

No matter what the choice, remember that the system encourages and rewards you for that choice.

Sucks.

Anonymous said...

I'm fairly new to Msft but what happens when you get a U/10? Are you pretty much managed out of the company or can you still have a career at Microsoft?

I think that U/10 is the new 2.5 and A/10 is the new 3.0

But I'm not sure. Their is no 500 page functional specification on HR web, and even if their was you know someone would have declared this as a UINT instead of a float. ;)

Anonymous said...

The way I hear it the company that collates MS-Poll results is colluding with HR to break confidentiality, and has been doing so since 2007.

I've always suspected the perceived anonymity here was dubious at best.

Anonymous said...

Our goals as a company are no longer about making the best product we can make. Our goals as a company are crudely, individually centered: to avoid being 10%-ers.

-

It seems like the only way management at Microsoft knows how to motivate their employees is to make them feel like crap.

Anonymous said...

Seriously, go find a buddy who's been out for a year or so and ask him about his new perspective.

I've been out of the company for about a year. Cannot be happier. I haven't seen a fraction of all political issues elsewhere that existed at Microsoft. The reason? In other companies people are actually focusing on the product and on the customer and not on "visibility", "career velocity", "performance rating", and backstabbing your peers to avoid the dreadful 10%.

Here's my vision of what the trend is appearing to be at Microsoft. Ten years ago the company had a much better brand and could hire people selling the message of "changing the world". The motivated folks created some amazing products. The salaries were OK, but the options made everyone rich. After that time, many great people retired, management changed and started playing safe, surrounded itself with incentive models that funneled existing revenue stream into the executive compensation. All the talks were how to milk the cow more efficiently.

Microsoft is also one of the biggest employers of foreign H1Bs and does not pay overtime. Those on H1B cannot change jobs and would be forced to leave the country if the job is lost. They are EXTREMELY motivated to work weekends and 16-hour days. Management perfectly understand the the power of work visas. That created an unhealthy environment where some would be motivated to work for less half the pay (factoring working double the hours). In this climate any performance metric (as broken as it is), is only making things worse. Free market? Probably. I'm glad I'm out.

Anonymous said...

Glassdoor, a site to share information on companies, was founded by ex-Microsoft employees.

Life After Microsoft: 15 Startups Founded By Ex-Employees

Anonymous said...

There are so many people reporting total shock at getting A/10s (and I'm not just talking about this blog) that it makes me suspect that there's a big cull planned in which "underperformers", which is effectively what "10" now means, will get booted out the door on performance grounds rather than laid off/severance. That would include me.

Mike said...

L63 - 10/Underperformed, unfairly handed that rating. Been here for 5yrs - no promotion so far. This is my first U-rating. Been 70/A all the while. I am surely within one year of a promo according to CSPs. I am currently being coached to leave. I have no option to explore other possibilities within microsoft because of Underperformed rating. My manager wants to avoid putting me on a Performance Improvement plan, because he surely knows I would come successful out of it. The 'U' message came towards end of July2010. I do not know my options, I am still in a shock and am feeling drained. Not sure what my rights as an employee are, at the moment. Not sure if I should go and talk to HR, Not sure if I should contend, and what the implications would be. All I want to do is move to a different team. Did anyone face such a situation or have any suggestions?

Anonymous said...

@ Steve Ballmer said...
I have an open door policy for all who think they have been treated unfairly.
FSB

I am sorry. FSB stands for?
Guess FSB - Fake Steve Ballmer.
If you are FAKE, how will you help?

sorry FSB.

Anonymous said...

E/20 - they really feel proud to share that they belongs to E/20.

Though the reality is not always the same. Are they really E/20s?

Performance evaluation is nothing to do with the quality of work we do anymore.

Anonymous said...

why MSFT stock price is not growing?
can i sell my stocks later if leaving?

Anonymous said...

Can the PERM denials discuss at trackitt? I'm also waiting eagerly.

Anonymous said...

Questions for LisaB?

Lisa is visiting my subsidary shortly, and I'm trying to collate some questions to ask her.
Yes I know this is naive and they are likely to be filtered out, but need to try anyway.


When LisaB took the job ~5 years ago, her first act was a "listening tour". The changes to the review system that so many complain about, the current methods of commitment and contribution ranking, the compensation structure, and HRs position as protecting the company from the employees and siding with managers (no matter how stupid or incompetent or unfair)ARE ALL LISAB's doing! And you're going to ask her questions that basically say 'you screwed up'. Good luck with that.

Anonymous said...

>Lisa is visiting my subsidary shortly, and I'm trying to collate some questions to ask her.

Lisa owns Seattle Storm basketball team. This team won the title this year.

There are many execs at Microsoft that have invested in other opportunities.

Anonymous said...

A lot of people can not leave due to H-1B and waiting for the green card game. Microsoft is simply exploiting these people at the cost of morale.

Anonymous said...

Hearing rumors of a October layoff, anyone with more info?

1+

Anonymous said...

"Exactly - and it is going to be ALOT more challenging to receive a good bonus and promo. That is the way it SHOULD be. Why do MSoftees these days think that bonus and promos are a right, rather than a reward???
Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:18:00 PM"

Why shouldn't they have commensurate expectations. The SLT and Partners receive huge bonsues for lack luster results, for example, not trying to pick only on RobbieB, but RobbieB did get a $6M-bonus last year, for those previous years results, and then annouced his departure a matter of months later - what, the Windows Phone and KIN debacle is new information they received just a handful of months after he decided to leave? We didn't just take a $1.6B write down on XBOX and Apple wasn't eating our lunch when he received that bonus? Where's the risk they take for these rewards? Robbie's contribution to the company that year was 1,000 times more valuable to the Company than the person who got a pat on the head and $6,000? Elop got a $5M relocation package. Level 68 Partners and above -even the ones failing jobs over and over and subject to lawsuits that the company must spend tens of thousands of dollars defending -are not subject to the 10% rule, allowed to keep collecting salary, and the SLT even increased the SLT bonus pool by 28% last year - see 2009 Proxy - while at the same time telling eveyrone else the bonus and promo. budget had to be decreased... it's the economy, stupid. While MS was cutting staff, no one in the SLT took a salary cut - like what, they were all going to be hired by Oracle and leave if their salary and incentive is cut by 10%?
Even sr. managers, without contracts, who have broken US laws, and MS policies this year, get a golden handshake as they were shown the door.
So yea, why shouldn't the rank and file, doing even a 'good' job, expect a bit more...

BTW, on the outside, we don't spend 5 months of the year paralyzed by the review system in pre-callibration, calibration, ranking, stacking, politic'ing, lableing people as 'unacceptable', HR Diversity Scrubs, and reveiw delivery. I never got a 10 or a 3.0, but found the whole process debilitating and a huge waste of time at MS as both an employee and a manager, and it's refreshing not to go through that anymore. The Company I work for was just noted as one of the fastest growing software companies in the world. Maybe it is because we utilize peoples strenghts and dont' spend 5months of they year figuring out how to demotivate 80% of our staff. NO one has time for that except MS HR. Been a lot of places only saw it there.

Anonymous said...

Hello "insert name here"

May we count on you for your participation in a mass booing at next week's Company Meeting?

Faithfully yours,
Reality
--------------------
Good idea, but far more impactful at the Stockholders meeting in November. Last year the BOD got off very easily.

What are some questions that should be asked during the BOD annual meeting?

Anonymous said...

anyone know the salary ranges for the 60-62 band? Does HR still have to provide that if asked? Thanks.

You can ask (I did). You can get the salary range for your level and one higher...for the specific pay plan you're in.

I just asked an HR person last week and received it within a day.

Anonymous said...

L62
A/70
B: 8%
S: 85% of target
MI: 1%

Middle of the pack review and worst in 10 reviews.

I miss the old review model, where if you destroyed everyone in your organization in productivity and did all of the things that were asked of you and more, you would get a 4.0, at worst.

Now, you have to make sure the other managers in your org know you're alive and working on something. Anything, really. That counts more than "going above and beyond" because it eases the pain of your manager from forgetting some or all of the hard work you put in when it comes to stack rank time. If you hate being overly self-promotional, expect a middle of the pack review.

Humility is the plague in this review model. I've come to expect to receive mediocre review results as a fair tradeoff compromising one of MY core values. And I feel secure enough in justifying my own existence that it makes day-to-day work life a lot less stressful.

Anonymous said...

But you forget that the state can just vote to reduce the salary range by just a 50% margin. So in a few years, it will be reduced to those making over $200k, then over $100k and everyone else gets screwed and those who can start moving to income-tax less states like Nevada."
Funny you mention Nevada. The same Gates Family supporting this pro-income tax proposal is the same family that created a shell company called Microsoft Licensing International (MSLI) HQ'd in Reno, NV. When Big Company X sends in its multi-million dollar annual EA renewal, it doesn't send the check to "Microsoft Corporation" - a Washington State Company -heck no - then MS would have to pay WASHINGTON STATE Business Tax on that amount. Big Company X sends that check/wire to MSLI, an “independent” company solely operating out of Reno NEVADA, who licenses the use of Microsoft software. This company was solely created to avert WA State business taxes and has saved stockholders including Bill GATES, billions in taxes since its inception in 1997. If Bill G, as an influencer of the board, chose to move MSLI back to Reno, the State would have their budget problems solved. So, to divert any glare on him and the Gates’ family, they support this income tax on the middle class. Make no mistake this is a huge tax increase on everyone in the State – there’s no off-set here to move the overall tax burden up hill. The proponents say our current tax is regressive but nothing in this initiative helps the poor or middle class. They're offering no discounts off the sales tax and only about a $100 relief off of the property tax on your $500K value home.
Folks, don't be fooled. The Gates will not pay any taxes on that wealth transfer to their Foundations and Charities.
This is hypocrisy in action. Telling you to vote for a tax because "they love this state, and want to support Edu and Healthcare" yet will they choose themselves to pay any taxes on that founders stock to support what they say - NO! They pass it tax free to private Foundations and Trusts, regardless of the State initiative, and meanwhile they create shell corporations outside of the State, in in Tax free states of all things! Given more MS Revenue flows into RENO, why are they not supporting an income tax there?

Anonymous said...

Oct layoff? they're ongoing...I personally know three people laid off in the last three weeks. Since I've been traveling, I'm sure there are more.

Anonymous said...

I-1098 is for couples making over $400K a year and the tax is for income above $400K - nothing under $400K will get tax.

It's not a moving target. Another initiative will needed to be voted for if the marging get changed. Nothing the legislators can do.

Other than the partners, this is not going to impact anyone!

Anonymous said...

>The current 'like it or lump it' approach will have negative repercussions in the future, when it will be important to retain and attract talent.

Yeah, about ten years from now. Longer if we go into a global depression.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

For the comment that stated "For a U/10, HR has to approve the manager's comments. My manager flat out told me that it took a while for the approval since HR didn't want to send a mixed message that I did nothing wrong. "

I am a PDRM in MCS and this entire story sounds fishy. Your review is not based on utilization alone. So, while you may not have made your number in utilization, there were other commitments on your review that you were not even close to attaining. Hopefully, you can right the ship this year. But, please do not try to let everyone on this forum think that you just did not hit UBI and got a U/10. It just does NOT happen.

Sunday, September 19, 2010 8:38:00 PM


My manager told me that he was going to give me a U based ENTIRELY on my utilization being too low. But I quit before the review was entered.

Anonymous said...

Microsoft is... man, I dunno what to say about it. At the executive level they are clueless about contemporary business, and the employees they need to trust about the modern business are exactly the people they disparage. There is no direction.

It's not just that they're failing -- it's that they seem to be carefully, deliberately and very painstakingly plotting their own obsolescence. They've already decided they're going into the rest home; now it's just a matter of finding where the closest Denny's is.

The bones are creaking and they're not the least bit interested in whatever Sally Field's hawking. It's like harikari on a mass, heavily promoted scale. Like they want to show the world just how clueless they are at the same time they're trying to show them how great they could be. Like Jason Schwartzman's character on Bored To Death.

We work for the first self-loathing corporation in American history. Stuck in neutral, getting in the game late and screaming "Me too!" when we finally get there, getting too tired, then all too happy to concede.

The vitality curve will continue to reinforce that group mentality until someone has the good sense to abolish it. But the only type of person who'll do that is probably way too happy in his or her new position at Google to care much about it.

Anonymous said...

Hey Mini,

There are clearly in excess of a 1500 employees who have been terminated using the so called STEALTH PRACTICE. Were all of them underperforming.....certainly not.....MSFT is accountable to answer for these stealth layoffs that have occurred over the course of 2010 (after the November 2009 publicly announced mass layoffs)....there is no public announcements, all of these were quietly removed by leveling false charges and issuing summary judgments, just like in the medieval world or a barbaric society.

Should this be allowed to continue? Or should the law of land take effect. We need accountability for these over 1500 layoffs that have occurred.

Mini I can assure you that at least half of them are were positive contributors to MSFT's growth but were politically managed out in the most despicable manner by mentally corrupt and notorious managers who have lost their integrity towards MSFT.

In fact if it is these managers who have laid off so many people who should be investigated and terminated if they are found guilty of malpractices or inefficient handling because of the simple fact that, if an employee was terminated due to underperformance then what is it that manager was doing to make him/her productive prior to their removal in the 1st place. This should be done taking in to consideration the merits of the case because right now the manager has a free hand when they have to terminate an employee, they are not held accountable at all. These managers just blindly terminate at their WHIMS AND FANTASIES, this is fact and not an exaggeration. I can give several examples.

Is there anyone listening? Is Lisa B listening, are you going to keep quiet or you going to do something about this rampant injustice which is spreading like plague in MSFT. You surely need to and you need to do this HONESTLY, SYMBOLIC GESTURES WOULD NOT HELP because they would hurt MSFT’s even more and lead to a disaster and possible collapse of this great software institution that is currently held hostage by notorious, corrupt, inefficient and useless managers.

LISA B…..PLEASE, ARE YOU LISTENING TO OUR PLEA? WE HAVE NOTHING BUT GOODWILL TOWARDS MSFT. BUT PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS INJUSTICE HAS LEFT MANY (INCLUDING IN THE OUTSIDE WORLD) LOSING FAITH IN MSFT AND YOU HAVE A RESPOSIBILITY TOWARDS RESTORING THAT FAITH AND FOR THIS YOU NEED TO ACT.

Anonymous said...

L# 62: (E/20)
Bonus: 15%
Stock: 270%
Merit: 4.5%

Finally learnt how to play MS Ball

Anonymous said...

There are a few people talking about families hurting and people going postal. I'm an Indian working here on a visa, and I can tell you the people who talk about these things are self centered. Here's my perspective on the social situation with respect to jobs in the US (MS included). Your society (yes, I am talking about white America) bought into capitalism and industrialism as the way to go, and then went and imposed that ideology on the rest of the world (India included). How did you expect greed to serve anyone ? In a system based on greed, only the extremely competent and overly hardworking people can survive. At least socialism talks about social justice. But unfortunately people in this country associate socialism with Stalinism and the corrupt form of socialism that exists in China and used to exist in the USSR. You fail to see the corruption that has plagued your own greed based system.

Anyways coming back to Microsoft, I got an A/70, 1% merit, 120% stock, and was passed over for a promotion, in favour of people who did much less during the year, simply because they were white. By the way, it's a well known secret that gets talked about extensively in the Indian community. I was also bumped down from exceeded to achieved because I made a mistake that many people have talked about here.

So, for those of you complaining that we're taking your jobs, it's no walk in the park for us either. Besides your country and it's corperations have a big hand in encouraging the corruption that happens in India. That has the nasty effect of making people like myself greedy and choose to "take your job". After all if the corrupt are thriving and the virtuous are dying, I see no reason to not be corrupt, while still abiding by all laws. Similarly, I see no reason to work even longer hours in India (70 hours a week) for a ridiculous lifestyle, when I can lead a better life here in the US and work less (60 hours a week).

You seriously did not think you could have it both ways, did you (that is live a life of greed and keep your job at same time, while sending your trash and global warming effects to the poorest of nations.) ? Like you Americans say so well - "What goes around, comes around". So take what you get - it's the mess that you've started. You bought into this corporate mess. It's your people that love videos games and fast polluting cars and the tea party movement. You've brought the world to the point where those who do not embrace this culture and thrive in this environment, die a slow and painful death.

Anonymous said...

To: MSEurope1 Questions for LisaB?

Suggestion: Make sure that whoever presents your questions is someone you either don't need or don't like.

These LisaB Listening Tours are nothing but PR events. Her eyes glaze over when anyone asks a substantive question, and she either spews out a canned LCA-approved response, or she gets slightly defensive and tells the questioner to either "deal with it or find another job."

Her primary goal is to give Microsoft plausible deniability in the face of illegal actions by Microsoft managers. That's it. She doesn't care about you, or your career, or your suggestions about how to make things better. (On this side of the pond, she doesn't even bother attending the SLT dog-and-pony shows anymore.)

She's happy with her own station in life, and that's enough for her. She makes gobs of money, has a big staff, and gets to further her own private causes (like forcing everyone to use those compostable potato-flake coffee spoons).

Be clear about this: Microsoft is feudal environment that's run for the benefit of upper management. Success for anyone in the trenches comes from a combination of political savvy and finding the right patron. (If HR really wanted to do something helpful, they'd start handing out copies of Machiavelli's "The Prince" as part of the NEO package...)

Anonymous said...

"Lisa is visiting my subsidary shortly, and I'm trying to collate some questions to ask her.
Yes I know this is naive and they are likely to be filtered out, but need to try anyway."


It's not just naive, it's wasteful and redundant and a complete waste of time.

All of the questions you raise have been asked repeatedly, over and over again, on every listening tour she's ever done. Lisa listens quite well, but in all the years she's been HR VP she has never taken meaningful action on anything she's heard.

Seriously -- do not waste your breath. This company *does not care* about employee concerns unless there is a clear and present danger of a lawsuit that will be a public embarrassment. They do not care if we threaten to leave for another company -- unless you're identified as a key executive or architect you are just food for the machine.

Get it through your head -- Microsoft is unconcerned about your compensation and rewards package in every case except for those who we've identified as the top 2%.

Anonymous said...

Been here a year, I'm on my 4th manager. I worked on 4 projects in the last year that died, got reorg'd, or both. Not my fault for any of them, but I got a big bag of shiat for my review. I'm having a hard time figuring out how anything gets done at MS. We've become IBM from 1993, big, bloated, and unable to change quick enough to be a major player in emerging markets. Still chasing tail lights.

Anonymous said...

This year, in many (but arguably not all) groups, the ass-kissers were the exclusive recipients of top rewards at the higher levels.

+ 1 on my team

Anonymous said...

Questions for LisaB?

Tell her that every company has a morale choice to make. They can either take care of the employees that took care of them, or they can use the foreclosures and down economy as leverage.

Ask her why Microsoft decided to take the low road?

Anonymous said...

You can think whatever you want about the review system, but a curve is a curve. Their are only so many A's, B's, C's, and F's being handed out class.

So true.

I think a lot of people pick up on this quickly. It reflects in how they choose to interact with each other. Even when people do help, it is seldom the sincere kind. It is more the help-themselves with their own career kind.

Anonymous said...

Is working as a full-time employee 60-80 hours a week, plus weekends, remote, etc.. without being paid over-time even legal?

I suggest everyone tracks their hours and badges in & out everyday. Keep everything on e-mail where the lawyers can later get to it.

Hopefully one day we can be properly compensated for all the hours we worked during the recession - for free.

Anonymous said...

Forgive me for my ignorance since I'm fairly new to Msft but what happens when you get a U/10?

Pretty much the same thing that happens when you get an A/70

You realize zero or negligible wage growth, or cash value.

All the money is flowing to the top few percent right now, so it doesn't matter a whole lot what you do.

Anonymous said...

>> So I actually got a 10% underperform and
>> a demotion to L64.
>> This is a very good thing, in my book.

If the company is only ever going to promote people only so they can make them feel like crap.. then it is like thanks but no thanks, I am happy where I am at.

This is how I felt on my last promo. It is not like the extra 5% is worth it.

Don't get this place anymore...

Anonymous said...

I don't think the level and review system has any credibility anymore.

I see people that are higher level that are inferior to people at lower levels all the time.

Anonymous said...

Level: withheld
Rating: U/10
Bonus: 0
Stock: 0
Merit: 0

I had a major health issue last year. I got management pushback when I asked for ADA accommodations that would have helped me perform better under the circumstances.

My health is getting better as is my performance. But I am not nearly as excited about my job as I used to be. It is not right that people get kicked when they are down.

Anonymous said...

"The Vitality Curve: Look What It Did For Enron."

Somebody please make a bumper sticker.

I'm guessing the player on the Storm who scored the least points per game is getting an A/10 in a couple of weeks?

Anonymous said...

Anyone know the current salary ranges for each level?

Even for a manager, they are pretty closed about sharing tables on salary ranges. However you can ask your manager what your current "compa ratio" is and they should tell you. Your "compa ratio" is where your salary is compared to the mid-point for your level. For example, a compa ratio of .97 means your salary is 3% below the mid-point, where 1.03 is 3% above the mid-point.

Anonymous said...

We have a new person on our team and the guy has a lot of questions. I have a decision to make now. If I help him out and he does very well, it really only hurts my chances on the forced curve.

You can think whatever you want about the review system, but a curve is a curve. Their are only so many A's, B's, C's, and F's being handed out class.

Would you help the kid sitting next to you at your college exam?


If you avoid helping him, your manager will notice, and your 20/70/10 rating will be lowered because you are not showing leadership potential. It likely will also hurt your chances for promotion, and you will not be considered capable of ever becoming a lead.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone out there managed to stay employed by the company after two years in the 10% category?

I'm not asking because I'm in that situation and looking for advice. Rather, I'd just be curious to know whether there are places in the company where it's acceptable to be achieving one's commitments yet ranked in the bottom 10 for an extended period of time.



It somewhat depends on your level. If you're less than L63 then the Microsoft standard is it's not considered acceptable.

However, here's my advice to all people who received either an underperform or 10% rating, ask your manager if they'd rather you look for a new job (regardless of whether that's a new team or outside of Microsoft). If they answer yes, then do yourself and them a favor and find a new job. If they don't want you, then your job is at risk, and your life will be miserable in the mean time being in an unwanted situation.

Anonymous said...

>> So I actually got a 10% underperform and
>> a demotion to L64.
>> This is a very good thing, in my book.

The naivete displayed by this comment is staggering. Dude, you got demoted two levels down after getting U/10. Your career at Microsoft is shot. You don't stand a chance of ever making it back to 66. Sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but your best option right now is to leave as soon as a good opportunity pops up.


Totally untrue. Getting hired at too high a level happens sometimes, and down-leveling is the solution. When they want someone gone, they don't offer the option of down-leveling. The fact that they did shows they have confidence in his career at Microsoft.

Anonymous said...

My manager is sitting across the table trying to tell me that getting a 1% merit increase is "really good" ?

It is staggering how deluded these managers around here are. Every year my pay cut gets bigger.

Anonymous said...

Can anyone run the math and prove it is good to be an FTE?

A) Orange badge -> Same job as FTE but they can use this technicality to skimp out of paying benefits, retirement, stock, etc... while companies like volt make bank.

B) Blue badge -> FTE so they will pay the extra couple of grand, but they will not pay overtime so you actually make less money, plus they boss you around to no end.

If you had to choose between the two I would say option A is the better compensation package at MS right now.

The best answer is C - None of the above. I think you can do substantially better elsewhere at this point in the job market looking outside of Microsoft. Right now either way MS is the one getting the sweet deal.

My suggestion is the next time WA Tech offers to unionize workers, and Microsoft leads a big effort to make you believe that they will do the right thing - just say no.

Anonymous said...

> The vendor companies make a lot of money - not the vendor employees.

+1

No one seems to care about working class people anymore.

Anonymous said...

- Oracle and IBM are playgrounds compared to the mindgames illustrated on this blog.

Getting worse all the time..

We never had office drama at Microsoft, but it is everywhere now.

Just no respect around here anymore. Everyone is trying to make the other guy look worse.

Anonymous said...

Quit microsoft after being unable to take it anymore and also curious to see how the outside world looks like...opened my mail box and saw a check for 4000$ (incl taxes) and was pleasantly surprised...

Same story here. Got sick of Microsoft's chump change..

Anonymous said...

MS-Poll:

Stay away! Say nothing.


MS-Poll is a huge waste of time. It is just another way for managers to figure out how far they can push the payroll expenses.

All it reflects today is that L65's are getting paid a crap ton and are generally happy, while most employees are mad and confused.

Anonymous said...

The focus on the money - all of you are making a fairly substantial salary

Payroll must love people that think like you. I made $70,000 in 1975

I guess their will always be a few that will take the shaft with a big smile on their face.

Anonymous said...

The other issue is that not only are people not getting the rewards, they're questioning they're level of effort.

..

Don't kill yourself for this place. It's just not worth it anymore.

If Microsoft ships a few more units of Windows on that extra SKU or on a new device - in the grand scheme of the global PC market, Bank of MS, who cares?

It's not like you'll ever see any of it anyway.

Anonymous said...

I'll assume the majority of posters are decent employees, who want to do a good job and what is best for MS. But clearly the org there is set up to ensure that you'll fail. That's what it looks like from the outside anyway.

That is what it looks like from the inside too. No job done is ever good enough.

Anonymous said...

Why do MSoftees these days think that bonus and promos are a right, rather than a reward???

---

Probably because most are only seeing 0-3% increases in salary year after year and just can't hang on anymore.

Microsoft has become the Wall-Mart of the PC Industry. I guess that means they get to treat their emnployees the same way?

My opinion is that just because you are a de-socialized computer genius doesn't mean you need to be a big sucker.

Anonymous said...

Level: 64

Got exceeded consistently, so they promoted me in 2008. Then all of a sudden, I'm A10 and told its not performance but because everyone in my team is over 63 - so they gave me a good review - good bonus and A/10. At the time, I didnt even notice the A/10 - mid years also good and a key player in the team. Then in 2009, I got another good review - good bonus - and another A/10 and was told it was how the stack rank fell and that I just needed growth in my new level. Then all my upper management changed, and I had to fill in for three levels of management and got a good mid-year. Then new management came in to fill in what had left - all is good until one day they invite me to a meeting and surprise me with an U10 and walked me out of the building - explaining MS is an AT WILL Company. I dont see how a company can surprise employees like that and just take away your livelyhood. Its just completely unfair because I turned down other jobs to stay in that group and now I'm on unemployment for the first time ever. I've had tons of people calling me going 'what the hell happened" as it was a surprise to them as it was for me.

Anonymous said...

Just found out that the commitment rating is also ranked, despite the protests from HR that your manager and you completely control this rating.

Yes, this is correct. In many (all?) divisions they stack rank commitment ratings. The reason is because they are forced to because the bonus budgets are fixed, and the bonus range for Exceeded and Achieved are fixed as well. So mathematically if you have too many Exceeded's then you don't have enough budget to give them a bonus within the required range for an Exceeded review. Hence the budget and bonus ranges create a limit to how many people can be Exceeded. Also, they want to be able to give some Exceeded's the top end of the bonus range, so the number of Exceeded's get limited even more. They also don't want to have to give all Achieved ratings the bottom of their bonus range, so limits the Exceeded's even more. To make the math work, this makes it a requirement that only around 30% of people get an Exceeded rating.

Anonymous said...

Check out this article on the historical connection between forced ranking and age discrimination lawsuits. MS is behind history on this one ... when's the class action suit?? (I'm 'of a certain age' and on the chopping block.)
http://www.abanet.org/irr/hr/spring04/forced.html

Anonymous said...

left MS 2.5 years ago after an A/10 at L61 that came from out of the blue froma v sh*tty manager in a subsidiary after great feedback at all 1:1's.

Working with great people now and having a ball and base salary has increased 100% over the last 2 years.

Dont be afraid to spread your wings - there is life after MS.

Anonymous said...

Reposting ... at least as true now than then:

Mini - I'm surprised no one has pointed out the obvious regarding the "Kim" policy. Not only is it bad management, it's also ILLEGAL! It's a violation of both state and federal law to have management policies that favor younger workers over older ones. This is age discrimination, plain and simple. The higher level you are at, the more difficult it is to earn a level increase. Therefore, it's much easier for 30 year old employee to move from a level 58 to 59 than it is for a more senior 40 year employee to be promoted from a level 63 to 64. In fact, the vast majority of highly productive and valued employees at Microsoft who we count on to do the grunt work required to ship products plateau at this level. Only a select few who fall into the right demographic (male, white, type-A, ...) and have excelled in kissing butt to their managers instead of doing their work get promoted at this stage.

Not only is it totally stupid to penalize the hard working and loyal employees by placing a "limited" tag on them, it is blatant age discrimination since a highly disproportiate number of these employees will be over age 40 and be protected under the ADEA (Age Discrimination Employment Act).

I must stress that this is a very serious violation of employee civil rights and should be immediately investigated by LisaB. I urge you Mini to muster your faithful readers to not let go of this issue and force HR to come clean and drop this short sighted, draconian, and illegal policy once and for all.

Monday, November 20, 2006 9:47:00 AM

Anonymous said...

I thought this was hilarious!! They even take a jab at Mini!

http://bringbackbillgates.blogspot.com/2010/09/bring-back-bill-gates-billg.html?showComment=1285563350882_AIe9_BFS5xYDGmbr1lB4HfYzQVacsNVkmBdZh8Ml2bCM3XE-jyw8EbmiZ-zKnDSXQ8CmXmZFBXOKZWdkC_v58BXk1BsnbzAVIMlwRKtKD51RzBXLJ8EPg0wXsjBByXwGm7EeuCyUlXbqCFhh7kiIzALFDDHAnofLTl0Yd3BSQ2Z06qSghyc02sj-yNoRJjp3eweWRrXIk-AHJSHmNfL-ck-jGJJWx-2nlc306VCw-Mafv9YF8UPRThobfSTxFqk_c5dcvsHXLrnrfHCstdk8Bx9i_RCLQkSaJnDwr8wUl2V5ahnALN0tDoLvpxtS7ou-3wLLR9zAqRzaNVljro8CDysrk3VFYTCUYhmemhMeOLFpWGmHAXHZOpEKdQfFF5KEzz8nyBidAZDyF41HyxCv_jvqdqIQRiVW9tfcYgYMFJa0ESHZAjwar6L0yeVm2JgTAmfguzZwIcLFx5gCQlt9c3qqdPDI7nLL66VPGXaMbUOO5NkWTd65SKQ#c2463273598068855099

Anonymous said...

This was the link. Loved this blog, especially the dig at Mini. I'm not sure it might be a bit over the top, but pretty funny!


http://bringbackbillgates.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

Committment rating is relative to your peer group whether you like it or not.

Compensation comes from a pre-declared pool of money for both bonus and merit each year. Your sorting order in the stack determines *all* of your compensation at review time.

If you land in the X/10 bucket (achieved or otherwise), you are in the bottom 10% of the stack ranking for your peer group.

Microsoft has decided to spend less on you (and there is a direct formula based on your current compensation ratio) that governs the stock, bonus, and merit percentages based on that stack ranking exercise.

Your current promotion velocity / recent performance weigh more heavily on your bonus percentage as people "moving up" from a previous low review score, but "not quite out of the woods yet" will get the higher end of the rewards for the bucket they happen to land in.

The very top of the E/20 bucket gets the highest reward. It is not the same reward for the same performance year over year, even if you stack at the top of your peer group both years.

If you have hit the 1.05% compensation ratio, your prospect for a salary increase is *very* limited. To increase your salary at that ratio, you pretty much need to be promoted to the next level.

If you don't know how to get to the next level, but think you deserve it due to time in level or some other reasoning, talk to your manager about how you measure up to your current CSPs, and how that differs from the next level CSPs.

Yes, it is a relative system. There is no absolute hard line in the sand where you can guarantee that you will receive a great reward.

Your overall peer group (~50 individuals or more - might take multiple levels of mangement and teams into account) for your current level band (59-60, 61-62, 63-64, etc) is the group of peers that you eventually get ranked with.

With the standard titles now visible to everyone in both the address book and HT, you know who your peer group is throughout the review period.

The reward system is based on a curve. That will never change.

How that curve is determined is no different today than in the pre Comp-2K review system before the current level bands were instituted.

The (un)fortunate fact is that you cannot be evaluated in a vacuum. You must be evaluated with a reasonably sized peer group in order for there to be any hope of fairly distributing the rewards.

If you don't like how the review model impacts you, you have a few options:

(1) Vote with your feet. Change organzations or leave Microsoft for a greener pasture of your choosing. (Beware, the green is from the septic tank).
(2) Change yourself. Educate yourself on what it takes to improve from where you are and take the steps to make it happen.
(3) Be content with the rewards you receive today, but be aware that others may not make the same choice which will change how you rank the next time around.
(4) Accept the fact that maybe you aren't cut out to work at Microsoft. Perhaps there reall are people more qualified or more willing to take on difficult challenges than you. Go do something else with your life.

Anonymous said...

Re: tax nuts

Why is SteveB donating money to oppose the WA state income tax if your conspiracy theory is true?

Anonymous said...

L# 63
Underperformed / 10
Bonus $0
Stock $0
Merit % 0

I'm a 12 year Microsoft veteran. Every review up until now has been 3.5 or 4.0, or A/70.

I'm resigning instead of getting fired.

I know of quite a few others who are approaching 50 who are getting pushed out. Class action?

Anonymous said...

L60
U/10
bonus, stock, merit: n/a

I'd been w/the company many years and never got a review this bad. Unfortunately, I was in a previous group for 4 years that didn't promote testers. We found out when the titling changes happened (i.e. SDET, SDET II, etc.) and compared test titling vs. dev and PM.

I got a bad MYCD from an outgoing manager and only had inklings that I was going to only weeks before I got the MYCD back.

New manager (handpicked by my skip level mgr) seemed like a reasonable guy but similar pattern happened (only had a hint of bad review coming weeks before) then I get this crap review.

I recently turned in my notice. I couldn't take it anymore. I hadn't heard any layoffs rumors at the time and it seemed unlikely my group would be hit by that. Judging by the pattern, buyouts, esp. if given a U/10 would be VERY unlikely.

I will take a break for awhile and eventually will see if other pastures are greener.

Anonymous said...

"Exactly - and it is going to be ALOT more challenging to receive a good bonus and promo. That is the way it SHOULD be. Why do MSoftees these days think that bonus and promos are a right, rather than a reward???
Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:18:00 PM"

Why shouldn't they have commensurate expectations...


And that's the prime cause of many of our issues. Stock and bonuses.

For most of us, its handy extra cash... but for others its obscene amouts of money.

So we have a cadre of viciously conniving high-level folks who will do anything for that big bonus.

Especially to anyone who has the temerity to say "um, wait a minute, perhaps that's not such a good idea..."

And in a time when the bonus pot for all is considerably reduced, those partner bonuses have to come from somewhere... everyone else.

Money is the wrong incentive.

Anonymous said...

To the guy who is spamming the age discrimmination screeds: Can you at least try to make them look like they're actually written by different people? Or at least make them interesting?

Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Sunday, September 26, 2010 10:00:00 PM wrote:
(4) Accept the fact that maybe you aren't cut out to work at Microsoft. Perhaps there reall are people more qualified or more willing to take on difficult challenges than you. Go do something else with your life.

You're making two statements there that are not generally true:

1. The most qualified people get the most rewards
2. People who take on difficult challenges get rewarded

I think most softies would agree #1 is not true - it's a very political place and who gets the E/20 very often has nothing to do with who's the most qualified / did the most.

And #2 may work if you succeed at a difficult challenge, but the punishment for failing is severe (unless of course you are an upper manager, in which case you just have to change teams). Better to take on slightly challenging projects, and talk them up as very difficult challenges so you get a E/20 when you succeed. Social engineering, not software engineering.

And you have an unspoken assumption that Microsoft has high standards, because some people aren't "cut out" to work here. If that were true, why does HR feel the need to mark 10% as losers each year? It'd be better to not hire them in the first place.

Anonymous said...

In response to 26 September 10:00:00PM who wrote:
"(4) Accept the fact that maybe you aren't cut out to work at Microsoft. Perhaps there reall are people more qualified or more willing to take on difficult challenges than you. Go do something else with your life."

I took this option 18 months ago because I really wasn't cut out to work at MSFT - took me 12+ years of devotion to figure that one out - I really am slow. Today I work less than 40 hours a week - it fits in with my slowness nicely - but it also gives me some free time to spend the higher salary I earn today on some hobbies. I've also learned how to spell the names of my kids again. It's been a great learning for me.

Thank you HR for pointing this out, I'll turn down the latest offer to return to MSFT because clearly it's only for the brightest and I am slow.

Seriously though - this whole perception of MSFT being for the brightest and the best is delusional - maybe back in the wild days but no more - today you are a Wal-Mart. To put in the 60-80 hour weeks for the MSFT pay you'd have to be an H1B employee or so far up yourself that you can't tell what is really important. Good luck to ya.

Anonymous said...

Bill Gates solution to education crisis: Stack Ranking.

From: MACLEAN'S, "Bill Gates in Conversation with Kenneth Whyte," 9/27/2010. (Maclean's is a Canadian news weekly magazine.)

Whyte. What has to happen to put students first?

Gates. If you just say that the bottom 10 percent of teachers goes away because they don't measure up, then the U.S. goes back to being one of the best (educational systems) in the world.

Anonymous said...

Re: Bill Gates solution to education crisis: Stack Ranking.

As if you've never had a teacher that failed at motivating their students.

I suppose you're one of those people who wants to get rid of failing grades and Ds for students too.

Anonymous said...

L# 60
Underperformed / 10
Bonus $0
Stock $0
Merit % 0

Was fired without notice at performance review (too long time in level). Got half an hour to collect personal items from my office.

Anonymous said...

"Is it true that you should not tell your group you're leaving for another team (or planning to) before caliberation 'cause no matter how good you are you will get screwed?"

Yes, this is true. You should not also tell you're leaving, but also not leave, because if you leave too close to review (e.g. in April or so), your review will be based on previous team's feedback, and you'll get screwed.

Anonymous said...

When I joined MS in the late 90s the company was a consumer company trying to break into the enterprise. It is now an enterprise company trying to win back the consumer. What amazes me is the desperate lengths to which the company is willing to go to win consumers in low margin businesses like search and mobile. Pitch Mobile 7 at businesses and you will likely have a winner. Talk up the Exchange connection and SharePoint integration thru startups like Moprise. Stop wasting time on trying to beat iPhone and Android for the masses.

Then again, SteveB's oligopoly is unable or unwilling to concede defeat in some areas to win in others.

Anonymous said...

@Bill Gates solution to education crisis: Stack Ranking

Microsoft, learn at least from Bill G.

Anonymous said...

Gates. If you just say that the bottom 10 percent of teachers goes away because they don't measure up, then the U.S. goes back to being one of the best (educational systems) in the world.

Is this a joke? Is this Gates admitting that Kimology is his masterpiece?

And then next year you get rid of 10% more, and so forth. Then you go to Congress and tell them you can't hire enough good teachers here in the U.S. and persuade them to allow you to hire foreign teachers. In the meantime you send your little darlings to private school.

Anonymous said...

Gates: If you just say that the bottom 10 percent of teachers goes away because they don't measure up, then the U.S. goes back to being one of the best (educational systems) in the world.

Funnier then hell. Never mind if the educational facilities are adequate, the parents engaged, the kid wants to learn or moreover understands the value of doing so, maybe even enjoys learning ?!?

So the Gates formula plays itself back in the misery that is annual review time ... unaccountable managers, vague commitments and the absence of meaningful goals that engage the employee. Ask yourself, if the company jettisons 10% of the workforce, say 9000 people annually, how much does it cost to hire and ramp replacements? And what is the productivity impact on the remaining fearful population? I would place the cost of this foolishness as close to $1billion annually. For a fraction of that MS could put in place a performance system that pushes clear and unambiguous goals to each and every employee. Check www.succcessfactors.com for an example (and no I don't work there). Add a mechanism for inventorying skills across the company so when business changes do occur meaningful redeployment to another job is facilitated.

Of course the HR Gestapo does not understand any of this and just spends the days filing their fangs in anticipation of the next bloodletting.

Anonymous said...

I've to post this, because I'm really wondering if something like that ever happened before (and also to show to all skeptics that in Microsoft everything is possible under bad manager):

L: 60

MYCD - Both manager and me agreed that I'm on E/20% path

After MYCD got Gold Star (AFAIK, less than 1% of FTEs get Gold Star)

Review – U/10%, all manager comments from MYCD were completely changed (So after being in less than 1% of top performers, somehow I've finished in worst 10%)

No help, no explanation from any skips level or HR, dead end!

Does it sucks or what???

Anonymous said...

Level: 62 (At level for 52 months)
Rating: U/10
Bonus: 0%
Stock: 0
Merit: 0
Not totally surprising - last year received a A/10. Been here 18 years and done well financially so not too worried about the short or mid-term hit when they push me out. It seems like the writing is on the wall. The first 16 years as a tester I got 3.5s and 4.0s but my coding skills are not good enough apparently. Being analytical, figuring things out and following up with customers is not as valued as being able to write simplistic test automation all day long. Testers are definitely a dying breed at Microsoft.
I don't have too many regrets - I rarely worked more than 40 hours a week and never on the weekends so the Work\Life balance thing has been ok. Now I guess I'll have to go on some BS improvement plan before they fire me.
The only stress now is wondering and waiting to see how it will happen. The bad review releases Microsoft from any legal issues given that I'm now over 40. Meanwhile they're finding it hard to find people interested in working as an SDET on an understaffed service.

Anonymous said...

Second consecutive A-10. My lead said he had to really fight for that as others wanted me to be a U-10. He indicated that my perfomance would be reviewed in 6-months? Can you be put on a performance plan in the middle of the year like that?

The problem that I have is that there is a real lack of incentive in moving up the ladder. In our product group, my manager has a much more stressful job than I do so why would I be interested in pushing up and gathering more stress. I'm quite happy doing my 40 hours of week, staying Anonymous and getting "Achieveds" until they decide to get rid of me.

Anonymous said...

>Get it through your head -- Microsoft is unconcerned about your compensation and rewards package in every case except for those who we've identified as the top 2%.

Hahaha, have fun building great products with those top 2%, I have seen some of those people up close and personal and they are....well....they have great personalities.

Anonymous said...

So much talk of promotion. If I could do it over, I would ride each level out as long as I could. We’ve promoted somewhere around 20 people into lvl 65’s in our group now. I’m one of them. Common sense this is too many people trying have a big impact as is evident by the “creative” work going on. These are all really smart, amazing employees but there are only so many big problems to fix - then you are left with tactical day-to-day that drive the real business. Unfortunately the tactical daily routine is not enough (no matter how good) at level 65 to justify your head. So riddle me what comes next? The sad thing is, I don’t care about being any level. I just love what I do… it was never about lvl or paycheck. I wonder how many others would say the same thing? Promotion is a one-way ticket to jump higher and do more. If you succeed, the bar goes up again… and again…

zozo

Anonymous said...

>>. Unfortunately the tactical daily routine is not enough (no matter how good) at level 65 to justify your head. So riddle me what comes next? The sad thing is, I don’t care about being any level. I just love what I do… it was never about lvl or paycheck. I wonder how many others would say the same thing?

A lot of us. 10+ years ago, when hired (from industry), I spent my time figuring out technical challenges - using my brain, that's what I was presumably hired for.

Now, probably at least 25% of my time is sucked up by "managing the career" because to be successful, first you've got to be successful, to get propmoted you've got to get promoted... and there's only two states: accelerating or failing. I personally know of folks who've turned down a promo to L65 for exactly the reason the OP states.

Anonymous said...

Re: Bill Gates solution to education crisis: Stack Ranking.

As if you've never had a teacher that failed at motivating their students.

I suppose you're one of those people who wants to get rid of failing grades and Ds for students too.


I'm the original poster, and no I don't want to get rid of grades. My children are in private school because I want them to have the basic skills they need to succeed.

Teacher accountability is important, but culling the bottom 10% of teachers will no more fix the public schools than culling the bottom 10% will fix Microsoft.

Anonymous said...

I would like to thank all the people that posted. I don't feel alone. Bad management is a problem at Microsoft but many of you have already experience this fact. I do hear that there are some groups that have good management but the turnover in those groups is very low.

The yearly review process is at least interesting. Instead of invigorating people, it seems to pull a lot of people down and waste valuable time. I received A/10%, like a lot of people I heard nothing from my boss until the review. The review was horrible and really badly written. Just looking at the review I would have assumed I was a U not an A. I did hear a warning from others about my new boss not liking me. Well, the warnings were correct. I have also heard that this year, if you give an employee a 10% that the review must match the rating. That many managers have been given this training directly from HR.

So if there are layoffs, I would be the first one on the list. It makes no difference what I do. I have no incentive to do a good job. Does Microsoft understand the total cost of the review and ranking process? Does it really make sense to rank people? In other companies I have worked the idea of ranking has been eliminated completely because of the morale issues.

I see the writing on the wall so I am trying to get out. Since, I am an A/10%. I can apply for jobs within Microsoft but I am highly unlikely to get a loop. I have heard from a highly reliable source that HR is screening out all individuals with a 10% rating. So, I am putting together a vendor job with a different group.

Anonymous said...

U/10 here, after eight successful years. It's just ongoing fallout from Cinco de Fire-o. My manager sez, too many months in level. Whatever. Realistically, don't fight my unemployment and give me a shot to come back as a vendor and I'll be happy. That blue badge looked so nice back in 2002.

Anonymous said...

Catching up on 1st 200 posts:

1. SWICHING JOBS. Don't telegraph that you're leaving. You will get screwed. Chances are you're subconsciously telegraphing it, so you'll probably get screwed anyway. Happened to me... principal CSP with series of "very high" reviews and then a "not very high" review when I announced I was switching.

1a. Now, as a manager of people who have left the company after June 30 but before Sept 30, I have done the "right thing" and given them good reviews (but no 20s), and a good bonus, but then I gave them little/no stock since it would have been useless to them.

2. Someone reported an E/20 with a 25% stock award. If true, that's totally wrong. The "20" indicates future potential, so unless you were leaving the company, they should at least give you 100%, more like 130 or 170.

3. SDET PAY: Someone said SDETs make 1/2 SDEs. Not true. Pay grades are the same. The level curve for SDET is lower than SDE due to a legacy of disproportionate hiring level and awards, but that changed a few years ago and is working through the system.

3a. PRINCIPAL LEAD SDET: that makes total sense. There is a lot to be said for Principal (L65-67) as the minimal CSP for a lead, and Partner (L68+) as the minimum level for a group manager.

4. FEWER 20s: By definition there shouldn't be fewer 20s. But I have seen that given the anxiety over reviews, layoffs, and the economy, managers (M2s/GMs) are being much more heavy handed about grabbing an unfair share of the 20s. I saw first-hand a guy claim that more than half his team qualified for 20s.

Anonymous said...

MSEurope 1 and LisaB Visit:

You should mask your Anglo-Irish linguistic origins better... don't want that kind of attention from HR.

But anyway... stop yer feckin' whining! Success for a sub or remote site is when you are seen as equal and better than Redmond. Don't be the weird whiny site that doesn't like the American way of managing performance.

The points you raise have all been hashed over a million times, and you will not change her mind. I disagree fundamentally with all of your points -- we need more meritocacy, more emphasis on commitments, more focus on delivery and rewarding success. That doesn't mean pros-in-place are bad -- they exist, they are valued, they are appropriately rewarded. But don't ever confuse pros-in-place with people who are just hanging out doing the same job. A pro in place is always seeking to improve themselves, even if they aren't targeting the next level or a new role.

Instead, talk to Lisa about getting more visibility, better support for rotations (corp-to-sub, sub-to-corp), relaxed travel budget for subs (but insist on economy class... you want to fly business class, then get your own company)...

I have worked in corp and sub for an extended period of time... I have great respect for the subs and remote sites, but please don't shoot yourself in the foot with whiny Euro-socialist mumbo-jumbo.

Anonymous said...

L: 64 in level for 2yrs
E20 (or mostly equivalent thru my 8 yrs)
Stock: ~70k
Bonus: ~20k

Regarding promo, while some of me was expecting one, the rest of me indicated I still need some more maturity. So that wasn't hard. I never (mostly) felt that hard work goes unrecognized in MS.


PS: there was so much negativity here, couldn't stop myself from sharing my perspective that things while not ideal, isn't bad either

Anonymous said...

I left 2 months ago just before the annual review. One of the reasons is that I have been sick of the commitments and review things. They are politics and killing the company.

Anonymous said...

Just because I changed 5 managers in the 1st 2 years. I spent more than 2 years getting from 59 to 60. If you don't have strong manager to fight for you during the review. You get nothing.

It sucks!

Anonymous said...

"...The bad review releases Microsoft from any legal issues given that I'm now over 40. "

Not true, just because MS dreams up a bad review doesn't mean they have the facts and figures to back it up to an ouside 'judge'. If you believe you're being discriminated against, file a complaint with the EEOC.gov. You must meet their 'benchmark' of age discrimination - read up on this before you file -net you have to show you've been unfairly given G&O's and targets that your younger team members haven't been given - or a younger manager has assigned -but if they take your claim, MS would be foolish to let you go at the same time they're under the microscope of the Federal Government. The EEOC takes about a year to get to the file, and in 97% of the cases dismisses your action, since they are like a typical gov't monopoloy and overburdened, but they issue a Right to Sue letter, and slow down the HR process of pushing you out the door, because any adverse action taken by Microsoft against you during the EEOC process can be construed as "Retaliation", which is an illegal activity in itself. Even if you later 'lose' your claim they cannot retaliate against you.

Anonymous said...

Level: 61
Rating: A/10 (2009 review: E/70)
Bonus: 8%
Stock: 50%
Merit: 2.5%

Was one of a handful of PMs who were bumped from mid-70% (5-band) to upper 10% in L1 calibration to meet the curve. Unfortunately the last reorg put me in a very specialized / limited role with little opportunity to grow my skill-set. I was actively searching for a new position but now I'm radioactive...

Anonymous said...

I come at 9 and leave at 5, don't work weekends, and never read email or do anything else work-related outside office. Not feeling stressed or pushed to work more at all. And guess what? A/70 all the way, this round included. Looking at the comments above, it's as if I'm working at some other Microsoft?

Anonymous said...

Level: 60
Rating: E/20
Bonus: 25% (~17)
Stock: 150% (~10K)
Merit %: 4.5% (~4K)

I agree - we should heavily update places like glassdoor.com. It helps with moving to other roles, locations, etc. You are loved, mini-microsoft. Keep doing your thing!

Anonymous said...

Microsoft executives' pay and performance during FY2010

Another year, another few million dollars for each of Microsoft's top executives. And all of them who stuck around for the entirety of fiscal year 2010 got pay increases.



CEO Steve Ballmer got the least amount of direct compensation -- a base salary of $670,000 plus another $670,000 in cash incentives made for $1.34 million in income.

Unlike the other C-level executives, Ballmer -- who is in his 11th year as chief executive -- no longer gets stock options. It helps that he owns 4.75 percent of outstanding Microsoft stock (second only to Bill Gates, who owns 7.22 percent).

The highest paid executive was COO Kevin Turner, who took home a total of $10.45 million during FY2010. Next was Robbie Bach, the former president of the Entertainment and Devices Division, who made $7.65 million even though he stepped down from his position in May -- before the June 30 ending of the fiscal year.

Anonymous said...

Level: 61 (No promo)
Rating: E/70
Stock: 135%
Merit: 3%
Bouns: 13%

Feel cheated. No promotion. No 20%.
Soldiering on....

Anonymous said...

I come at 9 and leave at 5, don't work weekends, and never read email or do anything else work-related outside office. Not feeling stressed or pushed to work more at all. And guess what? A/70 all the way, this round included. Looking at the comments above, it's as if I'm working at some other Microsoft?

I have to agree with this sentiment. All the people who get bent out of shape because they got an Achieved instead of Exceeded. Who cares? Just put your 40 hours in and enjoy your life. Unless you're in the executive level, it doesn't really pay off to be working 60 hours a week. Just enjoy your "decent" pay, your 5 weeks of vacation and occasional free keggers.

Signed, blissfully anonymous in the background

Anonymous said...

I received a "U" after previously getting an "A-10". I worked hard but they're just looking for more advanced skills now in my position. It does appear that the writing is on the wall even though I'll be going through the motions of a performance improvement plan. I have some questions.

1) I heard about a colleague who knew she was getting a "U" but quit just beforehand, her logic being that her U would never be part of her permanent record and therefore would not hurt future job possibilities here at MS. Is that true?

2) Anyone heard of a scenario where a "U" received a severance package or does a "U" mean you get nothing just have to wait for the goons to dump you on the street one day?

3) As I understand it, when contacted by employers seeking references, MSFT will only confirm the dates that you worked here and will not releae any details about the circumstances of your termination. True?

It's pretty stressful but as I don't have another job to go to, I just need to wait and see how this plays out. There is life after Microsoft, I guess

Anonymous said...

"I come at 9 and leave at 5, don't work weekends, and never read email or do anything else work-related outside office. Not feeling stressed or pushed to work more at all. And guess what? A/70 all the way, this round included. Looking at the comments above, it's as if I'm working at some other Microsoft?"

-- I couldn't agree more. For me, worked at MSFT as a dev for 4 years and here is my story.

Year 1 - New college hire. Took my own sweet time to adjust. Priorities at that time were to setup my apartment, buy a flat screen tv, a new car & an xbox (remember was a college hire), meet women, make friends etc. Was given an initial ramp up project and took an honest 3 months to get "ramped" up - so much so that my "good-guy lead" had to point this out in my mid-year. Got a bit scared - googled and found minimsft and read about the horror show (or so they said) called the "review" system. Realized that 10% people get shafted and the bottom bucket in 70% dont get promoted -- didnt want to be either -- so started working. Still, worked the occasional weekend only when I spent the last two days of the week surfing the internet. Sometimes worked till 12-1 am -- but only when I spent the entire afternoon on pool and table-tennis and had a 1:1 the next day for a status. Generally checked in at work around 11am (used to sleep at 3-4am since another personal goal was to wrap up Fable, Halo & Gears of War) - went straight to the cafe, and then stayed around & did work till 6-7pm.

Delivered what had to be delivered. Review - A/70.

lead Comment - "You have great potential. Just keep doing things the way you are and expect to be promoted by mid year" -- was what he said :)
Lesson Learned - 1: Try working 8 hours everyday consistently and you would do great. Things are easy here at MSFT.

Anonymous said...

Year 2 - The team I was in got disbanded and we (me, the "good-guy lead" & his other peers+reports) all got reorged into a new large sucker org. I decided to reinterview and landed up a job in a new fledgling group. It was January then. The last 4 months past the review were totally wasted (did zilch work since there was no work). Now I was approaching my 1.5 year anniversary and a promotion was nowhere in sight. So I did what most do -- started working insane hours, got the 99.9 percentile email response time down to under 5 minutes, started speaking up in meetings (even when I had nothing worthwhile to contribute), and ofcourse started sucking up to my "weak lead" in my amateurish way. All the while, I had an awful colleague who felt threatened by me but was my "weak lead's" pet. Incidentally, he was also appointed as my "unofficial mentor". A month and a half later, I had my mid-year review. The "weak lead" used every superlative he could and clearly told me - "exceeding expectations". Anyhow, fate struck and 2 months later this entire org got dissolved and we all got sucked into another large org. The "weak lead" fled asap (probably he realized he would get butchered in this new org). The "awful colleague", me and a bunch of others started reporting to a "rising superstar lead". I continued working my butt off and proactively started asking for more and more projects. Built an excellent rapport with the "rising superstar lead". He was honest with me (or so he said) and told me that the "weak lead" had stack ranked me the lowest. But he said he saw potential in me and would try his level best to save me from the A/10 disgrace which the "weak lead" had set me up for. The "rising superstar lead" bluntly told me to forget a promotion and pray not to land in A/10. I was told very clearly that when you have two group changes in an year(voluntary or involuntary doesnt matter) - and you land up in a new city, a month before the annual review - you need to play the goat/pay your dues/ or anyway you interpret it. Those are the rules of the game.


This was the most stressful period of my career at Microsoft. I started "believing" in what I had read in those minimsft posts. I started "believing" that it was all unfair. Everything is a setup and I am a victim ..etc etc etc. But somewhere I was enjoying my new job and my "risging superstar lead" praised what all I did. So I continued working with the same aggression+passion -- but this time not expecting any immediate rewards.


Review (August end) - A/70 (more stocks and a larger bonus from the previous year). The "rising superstar lead" told me he worked an exception for me and assured me if I continue to work the same way, better things will happen.

Manager Comment - "Impressive - go-getter, loads of context switches but still keeps on delivering etc etc etc"

2 months later - Out of Band Promotion - got another raise -- broke the 6 figure mark --received loads of positive words.

Lesson Learned - 1: In the short run, there is a possibility of getting shafted even if you dont deserve it. That will be an unsteady state. If you fight the situation and keep doing "great work" -- equilibrium will strike and it will all be fine.
2: Stay away from the "weak" - They are more dangerous. Their inability incapacitates them from being fair.

Anonymous said...

This was the most stressful period of my career at Microsoft. I started "believing" in what I had read in those minimsft posts. I started "believing" that it was all unfair. Everything is a setup and I am a victim ..etc etc etc. But somewhere I was enjoying my new job and my "risging superstar lead" praised what all I did. So I continued working with the same aggression+passion -- but this time not expecting any immediate rewards.


Review (August end) - A/70 (more stocks and a larger bonus from the previous year). The "rising superstar lead" told me he worked an exception for me and assured me if I continue to work the same way, better things will happen.

Manager Comment - "Impressive - go-getter, loads of context switches but still keeps on delivering etc etc etc"

2 months later - Out of Band Promotion - got another raise -- broke the 6 figure mark --received loads of positive words.

Lesson Learned - 1: In the short run, there is a possibility of getting shafted even if you dont deserve it. That will be an unsteady state. If you fight the situation and keep doing "great work" -- equilibrium will strike and it will all be fine.
2: Stay away from the "weak" - They are more dangerous. Their inability incapacitates them from being fair.

Year 3 & 4 -- The "risging superstar lead" got promoted and became my skip level "take it easy manager". I started reporting to a "slow & (sle)lazy lead". The "slow & (sle)lazy lead" seemed least interested in his job and was happy being a "yes man" to both his powerful boss and his powerful peer PM lead. He was a procrastinator and communicated at the very last moment - coding starts in 3 days - "hey can you build this piece in this release - i am sorry I forgot to mention about it". He struggled finding interesting work for his team, advocated & defended "process", loved a 1-pager dev spec for every 0.5 day worth of work item, required 5 status updates per week (3 scrums, a weekly status report and an hour long meeting -- aah and an uptodate product studio for his lazy ass to keep track of his team's progress).

Anonymous said...

I pointed out several times to him the shitty work he is making us do -- how demotivated I felt about the projects (at one time - for 3 months - I was writing parsers to ingest raw txt files being provided by 3rd party vendors) -- but he insisted on his "holistic & complete" view of a software engineer who is not merely a coder. Anyways, we drifted apart and I lost enthusiasm completely. Somehow the desire to jump to the next level vanished -- Started checking in at work around 11:30am or 12pm and leaving around 5pm or 6pm. The lead didnt care and I stopped caring. The party continued for several months -- till I got sick of it all and jumped into the job market. Played it real safe - got a 40% base hike and around a 80% total comp hike. Kept mum - made sure the review was locked and sealed. Then broke the news - collected my bonus & stocks and quit.

Review (Year 3 and 4) - A/70
Manager Comment - "Yawn this ...Yawn that"

Lesson Learned -
1: Your success is in your own hands. It is directly proportional to your attitude. Do not look for motivation in your lead/manager. You get what you put -- and HEY THE SYSTEM IS LARGELY FAIR!!!

2: Never whine -- if it isnt working out here -- there are way too many opportunities out there.

3: If you are really good (which I think majority msft dev is) and our attitude is correct and you consistently put in legitimate hours (read 8 per weekday) -- the rewards will come automatically. Dont sweat too much about it!!

Anonymous said...

level: 60 -> 61
Rating E/70
Bonus: 12%
Stock: 130%
Merit: 4.5%
Promo bump: 8.5%


It looks like once you bust through the lvl 60 barrier, the opportunities and rewards start appearing. Never got anywhere near this amount of bonus/stock/merit before.

Anonymous said...

"Year 1 - New college hire. Took my own sweet time to adjust. Priorities at that time were to setup my apartment,"

Wow! that was a rather inspirational story. Mini should post this as a blogpost :P

Anonymous said...

Level: 60 PM (no promo)
Rating: A/70
Bonus: 8%
Stock: 100%
Merit %: 2.25%

Honestly at first I was a little concerned - like so many here, the written review was spectacular. Nothing but high praise, and IMO I was borderline A/E... I exceeded half, achieved half on my own assessment. But the financials are about half of what I've typically received the last 6 years here. I wasn't sure whether they were trying to "tell me something".

I was expecting at LEAST the same as previous years so I also felt a little burned. I've worked insane hours the 2nd half of the year due to team attrition (we lost 6 people in a team originally of 13 and have so far only replaced one of them. We still have 5 open heads.)

After looking at the numbers here though, it seems I landed right in the middle where everyone else did. While that doesn't make me any happier, it definitely eases the pain some. That said, my attitude has definitely changed. This job isn't worth killing myself over. I'm constantly stressed out, tired, grumpy, and my wife and kids don't want to be around me half the time. Now I hang it up at 5:00 every day, doesn't matter what I'm doing. I don't care enough anymore. I still care... just not enough to go past 5. I leave my cell phone plugged into the charger on my desk at the office and it stays there all weekend. My manager has already noticed and has started to comment on it - the last 2 weekends he has given me deliverables on the weekend (once on Saturday, and yes, once this past Sunday), expecting me to have something ready for first thing Monday morning, but alas, with no phone attached to my hip, I was blissfully unaware. Sorry pal. (And NO, I do NOT work in a service or support role - it's supposed to be a M-F PM job!)

I've also started perusing external job postings and am pretty sure my days as a Microsoftie are numbered.

Thanks Mini for keeping the blog alive, at least for this purpose alone!

Anonymous said...

Level: 60
Rating: E/70
Bonus: 11%
Stock: 110%
Merit: 2%

Anonymous said...

Level: 61 (no promo)
Rating: E/70
Bonus %: 12.50
Merit %: 2.5

Loved having my lead tell me how great I was doing, then getting punched up-side the head with shit numbers (I still get well underpaid according to glassdoor.com) plus no promotion (I thought there was no way in heck I wouldn't be promoted).

It doesn't hurt unless you know you're a better leader than your manager; the guy couldn't lead himself out of a wet paper sack.

Anonymous said...

Level: 60
Rating: A/10 (reason:nontechnical)
Bonus:5%
Merit:1%

Do managers avoid A/10 guys for open posn?

Anonymous said...

SDE II (Joined 12/08)

Level 62 (promoted from lv.61)
Rating: A/70 (Last year was E/70)
Bonus: 10%
Stock: 130%
Merit+Promotion: 1% + 4%

Very dissapointed at the increase.

Anonymous said...

Can someone answer these please?

1) Base salary level 63

2) Base salary level 64

3) Base salary level 65

Anonymous said...

I am so glad I don't have to worry about this crap anymore. I was kicked out on my butt a year and a half ago. Now I'm working for a very small company and having fun.

Anonymous said...

Just finished Dr Cuthbert's book with the same title http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122426318874844933.html. Lisa B has a good reason to keep the forced distribution model in place, it gives her power and allows Microsoft to discriminate against those that don't "fit in".

Anonymous said...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122426318874844933.html

Anonymous said...

I'm one of those that left Microsoft because of this crap. My new company hired a senior manager from guess where and he brought it with him. You can't escape!

Anonymous said...

Last year: (First year with MSFT)
Level: 62
Rating: A/70
Bonus: 6%
Stock: 120%
Merit: 0

THIS YEAR:
Same job
Three major awards
Rating 10/U
...need I say more?


Yeah, manager (even former ones) make a difference in the pi**ing match that is stack-ranking/review.
:P

Anonymous said...

Is Achieved/20 a logical combination for Rating/Ranking? Has anyone seen that in the past?

Anonymous said...

Can you change your role after getting a U/70 rating (because someone had to go under the bell curve)for the first time in your career?

Anonymous said...

If you assume that the goal is to succeed, then none of these pieces fit. If you postulate that the goal is to fail, it all comes together beautifully.

Anonymous said...

Level: 61
Rating (new system): 1
Bonus: 18%
Stock: 180% of target
Merit: 17%

The Merit includes the "bump" (8.5%), annual merit (5.25%) and the stock-to-cash.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Hearing rumors of a October layoff, anyone with more info?


There were RIFs today, Nov. 2. I know 4 people who were cut - all of them good performers.

So glad I am OUT of there!!

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